We have lived in our house since 2001. Out of the blue, I received a notification in the mail from our mortgage bank stating that I now live in a FEMA designated flood zone. Of course, there is very little information about when this was decided. All the note said was that if I did not provide proof of flood insurance, the bank would purchase flood insurance for our home. The best part is it would cost $2400 per year for the policy they were going to buy on our behalf.
What a deal!
We Are One of Two Unlucky Houses….
I figured this must be a mistake. Why would my house suddenly be in a flood plain after all these years? I then went to the FEMA website to look up our address on the Flood Insurance Rate Map (FIRM). Lo and behold, our house in indeed in a zone that requires flood insurance.
The interesting part is that there are only two houses in the neighborhood in a flood plain, ours being one of them. (Our subdivision is 1 mile x 1 mile, so pretty darn big.) This seems crazy to me because our house is located on a slope at about the midpoint of a hill. I know nothing about water tables, but I would think that the houses at the bottom of the slope would be at a higher risk of flooding than us. But, nope, those houses are in the clear, as are the houses on either side of us.
How We Will Fight Our Flood Zone Determination
So, our next step is to either buy flood insurance, or fight the flood designation. I contacted FEMA and informed them I would like to dispute our property being included in a flood zone. FEMA emailed me a Letter of Map Amendment (LOMA) form that has the term “EZ” in the title. However, the whole process appears to be anything but easy. According to the instructions, I will have to submit the following, in addition to the EZ form:
“One copy of the subdivision plat map (with recordation data and stamp of the Recorder’s Office) or a copy of the property deed (with recordation data and stamp of the Recorder’s Office), accompanied by a tax assessor’s map or other suitable map showing the surveyed location of the property with respect to local streets and watercourses; a copy of the effective FIRM panel; and a map scale and North arrow for all maps submitted.”
After I uncover and submit all the documents, FEMA will then review our flood designation and let us know their decision. (Apparently, some information can be obtained from a ‘map repository’, wherever that is.) In the mean time, our bank may decide to purchase the flood insurance in the interim and we have no way of stopping that from happening, unless we buy flood insurance ourselves.
If our plea is rejected by FEMA, we will have to hire a surveyor to come in and evaluate if our home is built above the Base Flood Elevation (BFE) or not. If it is, we will obtain an Elevation Certificate and send that to FEMA for review. If we truly are in a flood plain, we will just have to accept it and buy the insurance.
Got Any Tips On How To Fight FEMAs Decision?
Have you ever been told you need flood insurance suddenly? If so, did you actually buy flood insurance, or did you fight it successfully?
{ 120 comments… read them below or add one }
Wow, this sucks! I am so sorry. I really can’t help – we live in Houston, so even though we aren’t technically in a flood plain, we buy flood insurance every year anyway through the state for $320 just because we could flood anyway during a big hurricane.
BFS- I imagine those living in hurricane prone areas would want flood insurance. I like your price a lot better than the price the mortgage bank is quoting me.
Wow, that’s not cool. A big unexpected expense like that would annoy me too.
Wish I could offer specific advice here, but I can only suggest that maybe you try to find cases of where people successfully appealed and learn from the approach. Maybe a surveyor could help? Or, perhaps there is some legal representation you can get for this?
Here’s hoping you can eventually post a story about how you successfully changed the flood zone status of your home.
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I am really excited to hopefully post a success story on how I fought and beat FEMA.
Next week I will be talking to an attorney that did get his home removed from the flood map.
What did you learn from the arty? We have same problem; conflict g FEMA. Maps & lender stuck us with an eøensive pomicy which we are fighting.. Any advice???
It sounds incredibly crazy that your house would be in a flood zone, but not your direct neighbors? How do they even decide these things. It sounds completely random, someone was bored at the office and threw a few darts?
Good luck!
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Sandy, I totally don’t get it either. Like I said, my subdivision is huge, 1 square mile and there are 2 houses in a flood zone. I think a dart board would be too scientific…
Wow, what a pain! Seems very unfair to me…
Good luck, I have no experience in matters like that, I hope you change their minds!
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MR- thanks for the luck, I have a feeling I am going to need that and a lot of patience.
Jeez, that sounds crazy. They bank probably went through the flood map to protect their investment. Hopefully you’ll get it straighten out.
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RB40- Apparently this map was updated in April, so the bank wasted no time in wanted to slap some flood insurance warning on us. Unfortunately, it is a long process, so I am sure I am going to get stuck buying some insurance for at least a little while.
Ouch! That is crazy! I can only imagine the insurance premiums going up. Hopefully you’ll get a favorable response from FEMA.
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MC- It is crazy! It is just so frustrating. I also want to be off the flood zone list for resale purposes.
That is just pure crazy. I would say it would be a mistake since your neighbors on either side of you are not affected…
Call around for rates… don’t let the bank decide how much coverage you do and don’t get…
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I am making a call tomorrow to take the next step in the process. I hate when dumb decisions cause an emergency for me.
Got hit with that problem from FEMA and my surveyor was real slow. I am now paying an extra $100 a month for flood insurance. Finally the surveyor came through and I am not in a flood plain. I called Met Life home loans and they refuse to change it so I am stuck with this unless I refinance. There is a creek on my property and I live on a cliff about 60 feet above the creek. If it floods here we are all in trouble. Wish I had other options.
Oh Mike, that is terrible. I can’t believe that Met Life won’t remove it, that seems illegal. Did you send the info from the surveyor to FEMA? If so, did you present that to info to Met Life?
Tomorrow I am headed to the city to get some maps and such. Fun.
I have been fighting the same thing since April with Wells Fargo. They did the same thing to me but, from what I can tell, I am not in a flood zone according to the FEMA maps and confirmed with a survey. Wells too would not change their determination. If you complete the LOMA forms and get the determination from FEMA then your mortgage company MUST accept the FEMA determination. I am waiting on that now. I would say go ahead and get the elevation survey. 1) It will make the LOMA an easier process and I think it is required for the LOMA. 2) With the elevations you will get cheaper insurance. Most likely, as part of you deed of trust, you agreed to supply any insurance that your mortgage company requires. So they can require you to have flood insurance even if you are not in a flood zone (depending on their internal policies and good luck getting those). Also, most mortgage companies will take out an insurance binder the minute they decide you are in a flood zone. Then when you decide to get your own insurance, arrange and get a survey, shop prices, etc. You will get a bill for the period of time from the beginning of the binder until your insurance effective date. The bill will be at their rates not what you can get on the open market. Let me know if you have other questions and I will try to answer them. Good Luck.
I did buy some flood insurance for $405 for the year, just to hold me over until I can get this straightened out. The bank said it would cost up to $2400 because of the policy they would have to get. I don’t want them in charge of my money, so I just bought the policy and will get a refund when I prove I am not in a flood zone. (Hopefully)
Thanks so much for your insightful comment. Good luck with your situation too, and I hope your mortgage bank is not run by idiots.
Same boat as you. Our house has been zone X since 1968. Got the call two weeks ago that we’re now zone AE. We’ve been paying $350 a year since we bought the house in 2009. Now they want $3500. Although our creek is a flood zone, the house is outside the line, and FEMA agrees, our mortgage company (Wells Fargo) will make us get a flood plain survey and fill out the necessary (LOMA) forms. I only hope that we don’t wind up having to pay both. Good Luck in your plight/ fight. I think the certified surveyor will fill out the LOMA as part of the service.
Tony, my situation is ditto to yours with Wells. I got nowhere arguing with them that my home was outside the AE zone. Even though the StayDry utility from FEMA clearly showed my home was in Zone X. Wells Fargo sent me a map that they created and it showed me in zone AE. I went so far as hiring an attorney and they got nowhere with Wells Fargo. Now that I know there are two of us, I wonder how many others they have done this to. I am currently waiting to receive my LOMA letter from FEMA to put back into zone X but I have had to buy insurance, pay for a survey, spend my time and pay an attorney.
Even though I bought flood insurance last week, I just got a lender-based policy that Bank of America took out on our behalf. The policy they took out is 6 times more expensive than the one I purchased. Now I have to go fight that battle since I already bought a policy to hold us over.
Spending all the time and money on this is going to drive me crazy. Sorry I am not alone…
Kris,
How can they purchase you insurance, if the flood policy you have fulfills the obligations of your mortgage? If an insurance company has written you a policy, the NFIP has underwritten it, and FEMA has approved it. Here’s a copy of a letter I sent to Wells Fargo. I haven’t heard back from them yet, but it pretty much says, what I’d love to say in court
That is a my property. Although the creek, at the rear of my property, is an AE Zone, FEMA, the NFIP, State Farm, and CoreLogic Flood Services have made the determination that my structure is not in the AE Zone and is well within the Zone X500. The renewal of my $250,000 Flood insurance Policy was done effective June 3, 2011 and was underwritten by NFIP and approved by FEMA. That is a testament to the location of the structure, in relation to the AE Zone.
After speaking with my FEMA representative, he informed me that the policy would not have been written, as low risk, if the structure was in AE. He said “FEMA, not Banks, writes and reads the maps.”
As the first notice from Wells Fargo (dated March 14,2011) was based on an erroneously recorded deed to the wrong address, by Wells Fargo, and my property remains insured to the flood requirements of my mortgage obligation , I hope this will put to rest this debacle of harassment from Wells Fargo. As long as the property remains insured, why does Wells Fargo want me to pay six times more for the same coverage?
Sincerely, Anthony Merendino jr
What an absolute mess. I think in our situation, the two policies were taken out at the same time basically. So, the bank didn’t know I had purchased my own policy and they then took out their own. I totally don’t understand these ridiculous lender flood policies either.
When do you think you will get a final answer? In my opinion, you should be reimbursed for any charges you have incurred for this ridiculous situation, although I am sure that is just a pipe dream. I appreciate you returning and sharing more information. One more question- does living near a creek make you want to get get flood insurance? Do you have any history of flooding? In my case, we have had a ridiculously rainy spring, and we have not had any issues this year, or any year.
I just got off the phone and according to FEMA you are entitled to a refund of your flood insurance premiums if a LOMA determines you not to be in a special flood hazard zone.
There is a creek that is directly behind my home and that is what is causing my flood hazard. I have been in my home for 12 years and never flooded. It has never been close.
There’s a lawyer taking on class action lawsuits for these flood plain complaints. google “being overcharged for flood insurance in PA”.
Tony y,
We have the same story. When we brought the house we paid $350 for flood insurance, but we just refiance to save money and now the new bank says that Fema updated map and now we are required to pay $3500 for flood insurance. Of course you cannot shop for rates because all insurance it is controlled Fema. Then I hired engineers to LOMA which I got because chatting with our neighbor who had to go thru the same thing and now we waiting for the lender approval to honer the LOMA that the gov’t issued to being with. What happens if the lender says you are still required by law to get govt controlled flood insurance $ 3500 even if FEMA gave LOMA grant to get you out
I am just getting acquainted with this FEMA mess. Keep the dialogue going. I need help to reverse my situation. I am purchasing a home that the maps appears to show the house is in a good location but the barn is not.
So just your barn is in the flood zone? Now that I am back from vacation, I am going to pursue this aggressively. I did buy a policy to hold me over, but I want to be taken off the flood map and get a refund on my policy. I will document my process for sure.
Oh my Kris…I am so going mad…My husband took a job in Fla. over a year ago. I live in Ohio. We put our home on the market, after 6-7 long months we finally got a decent offer. Everything was going well for the most part, until lender declined the loan due to a FEMA flood zone came up. Back in 1997 there was an issue due to a drain ditch by my house the problem was resolved and our home was removed from the so called flood zone. In 2008 they went ahead and slapped a new Flood zone on my house, which it sits higher then all the other homes around me. They never INFORMED ME!!! Now I l gave everything away,winter clothes , furniture, snow blower.I spent money to pay contractors to fix anything that went wrong on home inspection. Now I cant even sell my home. Buyer backed away, 2 weeks before closing date. My husband and I have been apart for over a year now. I miss my family being together. Who is going to buy a house on a “So called flood zone”…can anyone help me defeat this FEMA fraud that is being consuming us home owners?!?!
Christine,
It sounds like you will have to do two things.
1) You will have to get an elevation survey. In my area this is about $300.00 so not too bad.
2) Once you get the survey, you can file for a Letter of Map Amendment (“LOMA”) with FEMA. There is a simple document on the FEMA website to complete and some additional documents to collect. You send in the application, documents and a copy of the survey to FEMA and 60 to 90 days later they will issue a letter stating their findings and amend the map as needed.
If you home is above the base flood elevations you should not be found to be within the special flood hazard zone.
Also, there may be some firms that you can hire to complete the survey and file the LOMA application electronically which speeds up the processing time.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!!!
Mike gave some good suggestions. However, what if you offered to pay for the flood insurance for a year and start the process of fighting it, would that get the buyer back?
I am so sorry this happened to you. I know the process takes awhile, is there any way you could convince the prospective buyer? Have you ever had a house flood? FEMA is hurting so many people. We had some terrible rains this past fall and people all over metro Detroit flooded, but we were fine, and we are one of the few in a stupid flood zone.
This is all a scam. All these big banks took bail out money from the government…now FEMA is
in the red for 18.5 billion…this is why we’re all getting screwed.
Vicki- I couldn’t agree with you more. Somebody has to pay for this mess of debt, and we will also slowly pay for things in a variety of ways.
I agree that it all scam run Fema and Banks.
refinance to save money, fema updated map without publice knowledge except for the bank who now tell us that we are required by to purchase flood insurance that cost $3500 . You can not even shop for flood insurance because we are told that the FEMA controls the pricing on flood insurance.
So as told by my neighbors we a hired engineers to finally LOMA thanks FEMA, who started this mess. But now I am pacing back and forth waiting for bank approve this LOMA that FEMA granted.
Note that bank can still required us to get flood insurance then why bother hiring engineers and pay $300 ELOMA ( apply on the internet) so that banks can just ingored???? Note our property never gets flood our brook far away is running down hill.
How on earth are we ever sell this house in the future??
We are buying this house which touches a flood plain. I have no idea about what it was. My sales agent disclosed and explained it could be mandatory but its going to be 20-30$/month. I went ahead and signed. Now when I am closing and called for a quote I see 4903/yr without an elevation certificate. They built the house with 1 ft higher than base elevation. I can try to get a elevation certificate.
I researched around and intend to apply for LOMA once we move in. What happened in your case SUE? Did the lender honor FEMA granted?
I am very worried. Should I even proceed? If I let go I will lose so much of my earnest deposit.
I am from southwest PA and I too have a creek running through my yard and received a letter from PNC much the same as you are describing. PNC however told my husband and I that it would be added to the principal of the loan and we would have to pay interest on that amount as well. I don’t beleive any of this should be legal but can not fight it.
I unfortunately do not have the money to pay for a years worth of insurance($2,000 according to my agent) due to being laid off. Therefore, I suppose I have no choice but to let the bank add it to my loan. Of course, I don’t have the money to get the survey done. Not that it will probably help me seeing as how if you can’t fight city hall how in the world are you going to fight the federal government right?
I may try to find out who my representative is and try pleading my case to him/her not that they will care because I am not a lobbyist with lots of money to line their pockets.
I will be keeping an eye on this site to see if any answers come up so please keep the info coming. And, I agree with Kris and Vicki that we are paying because the government needs money. I would just like to know how an idiot in Washington sitting at his desk looking at a topographical map of my area decided I live in an AE flood zone all of a sudden after this house has been here for literally 100 years and flooded once due to man made error not mother nature? I know this because my family has lived here for a really long time.
I don’t know how these desk people have any idea about how our homes are suddenly in flood plains. I will definitely be updating this site with my progress.
I had called my insurance company, and he was able to get me a policy for $400 that fully covers what was required from my mortgage bank. However, while that policy was in process, I got another letter from Bank of America saying exactly what you did, they were adding the new policy to my mortgage loan. Only their loan was $2000 more than the loan I took out, totally a rip off.
When you said you called your agent, was it your homeowner’s agent?
Google the class action lawsuits all over the country against Wells Fargo and other Banks regarding excessive flood insurance requirements, which under Federal Law are illegal.
I did do that, and I saw a lot of people complaining about Bank of America (my bank). The flood zone assessment sure seems to be prevalent. Heading to the city tomorrow as one of my first steps.
Yes it was my homeowners agent. I use the same agent for homeowners & auto. He’s really great but unfortunately having trouble finding me a company that will accept payments. I got my second letter from the bank today. This is the first time they mentioned that I could fight this amazing huh? I did call a toll free number I got online and they gave me numbers for some local agents. I’m going to call them Monday. They are from the bigger insurance companies which of course my agent can’t deal with(State Farm, Nationwide…). My agent deals with places like Geiko and Progressive that don’t have their own agents I guess. I think I’m going to have no choice but to let the bank do what their going to do because today’s letter said I have 15 days now to prove I have this insurance and as I said I can’t come up with $2000. My agent said if he could find me a company that would accept payments I’d be looking at $400 which I would find some way of paying but so far no luck. I’ll be looking for other avenues for insurance but not real hopeful.
Kris- My homeowner’s agent said that flood insurance is usually purchased through a federal program NFIP. If purchased through NFIP, the rates are the same no matter what agency you use. So my Nationwide agent just got the rate through NFIP and I paid $400 for my annual coverage. (Which was much better than what the bank was quoting me – $2400.)
Couldn’t you just call State Farm or Nationwide and take a policy out through them?
Here is a link about NFIP: http://www.floodsmart.gov/floodsmart/pages/residential_coverage/understanding_the_basics.jsp
This happened to me this year. My house was built in the 60′s and I’ve lived in it for many years. All of a sudden…Flood zone. The wild part is that FEMA will be back through at the end of the year and I WON’T be in the flood zone. I think FEMA is trying to increase their funds by coming up with some new flood areas. The bank was $980 and the insurance through floodsmart.gov (they list agents who will write your policy) was $650. Many agents don’t write the policies. It has happened to other homes on my street and this is very hard to fight. IYou may want to call your City offices and find out if FEMA is coming back through to revise the map. FEMA is coming back to our area in December or January and they will be using accurate data this time, and I have been informed I will be out of the flood zone at that time. Crazy isn’t it?
Thanks for the info Donna. The city is on my list of places to visit, that is for sure. I will provide updates!
I just received a letter yesterday stating I need flood insurance. I will be disputing the claim since my house is on the top of a mountain. the last time I checked water runs down hill.
I am at the top of a hill, but I guess FEMA doesn’t care. I went to visit the Engineering Department of our city yesterday, and he said that FEMA didn’t actually have ‘proof’ I was in a flood zone, it was just suspected based on how it was coded. However, he said a surveyor would cost $800 to $1200. Not many great choices out there, but I will battle on.
Kris you have to hire a surveyor & he has to fill out the LOMA form for FEMA. Find one that has experience in surveying Flood Plains. Do a google search using those words. We just paid a guy $500 & my property is large & complicated.
First of all, I get sick and tired of hearing people complain about bank bailouts and they do business with Bank of America, Chase etc. Dump them, and get a mortgage with a credit union. I too have been sent a lovely note from FEMA changing my property from x to ae. Never mind that four hurricanes came through here and no flooding, somehow now with their magical maps, I need to start building Noah’s ark 2. It’s such B.S. I went to the town hall meeting and they give you a map and of course they have a table set up to sell you insurance along with an area to file a complaint/dispute with FEMA. The best part is, sure you can dispute their assessment moving you into a flood zone as long as you pay a processing fee of a minimum of 425 dollars (up to around 800 dollars) and after you hire a surveyor or engineer to state that the elevation of your property is above 75 feet they MAY exempt your property from Flood insurance. Hah, what a scam, doncha just love government? They have endless ways they can spend YOUR money. I’m so glad I paid off the house in January, they can take their flood insurance and FIRM report and FIRMLY put it where the sun doesn’t shine.
Daniel – I have a question about getting a mortgage to a credit union. Is it better than any other banks or are they not going to sell the loan again to a government? We are actually thinking of getting rid off the regular bank and do a mortgage with the credit union. Any advise???
I am going through the same problem with now being place in a flood zone. I live in FL. There were new maps completed in 2002 by FEMA designating the flood zones ( I was placed in X) as well in 2008 there was a Letter of Revalidation written confirming that my property was in zone X & my structure was removed from the Special FLood Hazard Area due to the structure was in zone C. Hence, I DO NOT need flood insurance.
A month ago, I received a letter from my mortgage co. (Chase) that I now need flood insurance & they had already purchased flood insurance in my name to take effect in 3 weeks at a cost of $2300 for 45 days of coverage (great deal……….NOT).
In an attempt to purchase other flood insurance, I find out I CANNOT purchase because a new LOMC dated 4/28/2011 was showing FEMA placing me in flood zone AE and putting my home below the flood plain (which is crazy because now my home has supposedly sank a foot over 3 years) However, my neighbor on the same LOMC & approximately 5 feet away from me with a pool no less is still showing in a zone X and above the flood plain. SO now I had to pay for a surveyor to complete an “Elevation Certificate” (which by the way was the best money I have ever spent) to even purchase flood insurance.
The elevation certificate I have from the surveyor shows that my home is NOT in a flood zone and that actually I am a foot above the flood plain. As a matter of fact, the information they obtained was exactly what FEMA had for my home on the 2002 map revision & confirmed in 2008.
Now I have to submit documentation to FEMA to have this changed. I am now seeking an attorney because I want to know who submitted the invalid information to FEMA, how they obtained their information, how they obtained access to my property, and when they were given permission to do the survey on my home? I am out for justice. This ordeal has cost me time, money, aggravation and many sleepless nights and someone will be held accountable for it.
All I have to say is before you accept FEMA’s information, do some research of your own.
Some information I have gathered from my ordeal
Someone, Anyone (mystery in my case) can send in documentation to FEMA
FEMA has the information on who sent in the information to them
The DATUM has a lot to do with what the numbers will read on the survey. My surveyor used Datum “NAVD 1988″
You can find if there are any new amendments to your property on the FEMA website (enter your address)
http://www.msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/FemaWelcomeView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
In the state of FL (as I don’t know about others) your outside utilities are included in your lowest adjacent grade (ie outside air conditioner and your water heater).
Good Luck to everyone going through this madness. I whole heartedly believe it is a scam by the mortgage company’s to unjustly enforce insurance on properties
Lisa – I believe that the FEMA doesn’t really know all the information in your location. In my case, I went to the city or the county – there is a flood plain management division usually under the zoning department or the building department of the county. In my opinion, FEMA contracted a lot of agencies to do the work for them. Flood Plain Management is the source of all the information. They are the one feeding the FEMA, I think so.
I too have been going through this pain over the last 3 months. I live on a man made lake where the Dam was build 100 years ago. In order to build on the lake front you have to have a survey done to shoot the elevation for the spillway and the top of the top of the dam, then you build above the elevation of the top of the dam so you are not in the flood plain. The spillway is 12 feet below the top of the dam giving plenty of leeway for floods. I’ve been in the house 10 years and never had an issue. In fact we had a 100 year flood in 2002 where water was going 10 feet over the spillway. It never came close to my house. FEMA updates the flood maps this year, then the bank buys me flood insurance and says “go talk to FEMA”. They have all the information (survey etc) that cleary shows the elevations on my property and they refuse to talk me.
So I humor myself I start the process with FEMA for a LOMA. The long and short of it, FEMA’s base flood elevations are wrong. Their BFE is based on “local” 100 year old datum and have the flood level of the lake going 4 feet over the top of the dam, or 16 feet over the spillway. They denied my LOMA and I’m currently awaiting another review, where I have sent them info showing them their data is clearly wrong.
I don’t think I’m going to get anywhere because none of them care. Meantime, screw the bank and FEMA, I’m paying of my loan this week. I’ll determine whether or not I need flood insurance. I’m fortunate I have that option, I feel for others that just have to bend over and take it.
FYI, I wrote my congressman as well as local representatives, providing them the information. My neighbor is going through the same thing as well as everyone else at this lake. No responses from anyone, no one cares, just bend over and take it!
Vote them all out of office!
Update,
I won my battle with FEMA over their datum for their BFE being wrong. It was “Local” and not NAVD88.
The have issued a LOMR correcting it and re-issued a LOMA to me removing my structure from the flood zone.
I submitted the LOMA to CITI and they are refunding my money.
Win one for the little people!
Thanks so much for the update Mike. Quick question: How long did the process in total take, and how much did you have to spend? (approx…)
I started fighting with the bank last May. When they wouldn’t budge and forced flood insurance on me in June I submitted a LOMA to FEMA in June. I got my answer back denied in Aug. Their BFE was wrong and I knew it so I put some documentation together with data pulled off the USGS and the web then submitted an appeal in late Aug. When I didn’t hear anything back, I called in late Sept and they had closed my case and no one would give me an answer. I started going up the food chain and threatened to go to the media, finally someone said they would “look” into it. Things went back and forth for several months until they finally admitted it was wrong and they issued a map revision (changing the BFE) late last month. I got my approved LOMA this week.
The whole thing didn’t really cost me anything but time and aggravation since I already had elevations shot on my original survey when I built the house and submitted it along with the LOMA request.
Of course I could have paid a “local” engineer (who knew their BFE was wrong) $500 for an elevation certificate and the problem “would have gone away”, but I refused.
Just be persistent, especially if you know they are wrong and you are right.
Mike
I have lived in my house since 1986. The city has problems with the storm sewer overflowing the sanitary sewer, causing the sanitary sewer to over flow into the drains in homeowner’s basements. In 2006, they offered citizens money to buy “back flow preventer valves” if they signed a waiver to hold the city harmless if there was further flooding. Subsequently, they spent tax dollars to reline the old sewer pipes to prevent leakage. Last year, they asked FEMA to come in and remap the flood zones. There is no visible water in my neighborhood. I did not buy a house on a river or the ocean or anywhere near a creek. I have a small row house at the bottom of a hill of row houses. Houses at the top of the row are not in the flood zone. I have had water in my basement twice since 1986–a few inches of sewer water that came up through the drain in my basement. Everytime heavy rain is expected, all the warnings are about shutting your toilet lid, putting something heavy on it, and plugging up the drain in my basement. I have to insure my house, however, as if it could be washed away and have to be rebuilt in a flood. How is any of this fair??? it’s like the city, FEMA, the mortgage companies and big insurance are in cahoots somehow. The one who looses out, as always, is the poor schumck struggling to make ends meet and survive the financial shenanigans of big business once again. Why does the federal government throw in with these people??? Are we out of luck because this is a federal agency? HELP!!!!!!!
Well Met Life finally admitted I was not in a flood zone that Fema put me in . $500 to the surveyor over 25oo dollars spent on extra flood insurance. Metlife home loans said they were going to give me back $1080 that was months ago plus I am still paying the extra flood insurance they said they were going to take off my payment. What a nightmare. Is there anything I can do ??? HELP!!!!!!
Mike, I wish I knew what you could do. Your story is similar to what I have heard over and over. I would probably call MetLife relentlessly until they gave me my refund. Do they have an office you can go visit so you can sit and talk with an actual person?
If there’s contradiction between what FEMA says (zoneX500) and what the mortgage company is saying (zone AE), just go to your local agent and get them to write you a policy. The Insurance Companies get the policies underwritten by FEMA. If FEMA says your eligible for Low Risk (Zone X500) the insurance will be written and you are now covered to the responsibilities of your mortgage. This avoids a LOMA and more mortgage company diatribe . Sometimes the Insurance Companies (do) want an elevation certificate from a local Surveyor ($300), but Once FEMA has issued insurance, tell the mortgage this and, in writing, tell them to stop the intimidation. They seem to understand that word. I’m X500, bordering an AE Tidal Creek. House is at an 11.78 elevation and we pay ( the same as every “AE Structure in the United States) $355 annually for the limit (250K). That satisfies your responsibility. Maybe I just got lucky, but my FEMA guy said to tell the mortgage company that “FEMA writes and reads the Maps, Not Mortgage Flood Insurance Sales Departments.If the mortgaged structure isn’t in AE, and FEMA underwrites a policy, it’s covered and fulfills all responsibility in the mortgage.” If your mortgage company has duplicated your coverage just file against them in your Local Small Claims Court. It is too much aggravation for them to fight a small claims, that they’ll likely lose, and you should get back any charged premiums and your small claims filing fee. Hope this helps
This whole flood map stuff is so frustrating. I have all but given up my quest because I don’t plan on holding the mortgage very long and it may be cheaper to just pay the darn insurance than to spend all the money fighting it, and possibly losing.
I don’t live near any water whatsoever, I have no idea why FEMA thinks I am in a flood plain, and just my house. So stupid. What is so frustrating is you have no control over the situation. In my case, Bank of America took out a policy and charged me for it (I got reimbursed after I proved I bought a much cheaper policy), but they don’t fool around.
Thanks for the info!
Well Taking a day off work today and going to Metlife and complain about the imtimidation and try to get some of my money back. They told me on the phone that they were going to take the flood insurance off and rebate half of my money. They said seven to ten days and that was back on Nov. 30. I am not sure what I can get done but I am going to fight them. I went by the title company yesterday and they were shocked and said they had never seen anything like this. They were the ones at closing that said I was not in a flood plain. Thanks Tony for your comments. Wish me luck gang, Mike
Good luck Mike, and let us know how it goes. Maybe talking to someone in person will indeed help.
Okay I went to Metlife and they did not handle this at this office. They did give me a number to call that I never had before and found out starting in Febuary my payment will drop down to 911.00 per month. Before all this started it was 961.00 A MONTH. with the FEMA & METLIFE HOME LOANS RIPOFF my payment was 1098.00 a month which I have been paying for almost two years. They have not sent me anything in writing that explains anything what they did with my money. FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD is all I see with this. I pulled the extra money out of my pocket and I want it back in my pocket now that they admit MY HOUSE IS NOT IN A FLOOD PLAIN. My goodness how many people in the country are going through this. 60 Minutes where are you when we need you!!!!!!
Can anyone tell me where you’re getting flood policies for $400 or $600? I am in a flood zone and when I bought my house they told me I was required to get flood insurance for the principal balance of the loan. That is 72k. For two years its been 652 a year, but recently they told me its federally mandated that I have flood insurance that is equal to 80% of what I have my home insured for with my homeowners policy. That is 195K. They just force placed a flood policy for 156K and its $1500. I’ve called around and cannot find a cheaper quote. They’re all around 2k per year. Also, I cannot find anywhere on the FEMA or FDIC websites that say I’m REQUIRED to have flood insurance in the amount of 80% of the RCV. I’m sooooo frustrated!
In my situation, the policy was determined by federal guidelines. (In other words, it isn’t something that can be shopped around for.) What flood zone rating are you stuck in?
I am also battling Wells Fargo. I have a small creek at the back of my property. I have been in my house since 1978 and we have not had one drop of water in our basement through some really heavy storms. Wells Fargo wants to charge 2,250. for flood insurance. I then went to my insurance company and their policy will be 2,500. per year. This is Allstate and they have had my home and car insurance for many years. I have a Standard Flood Determination from FEMA that states that my property is in flood zone X and my building is not in a flood zone, and yet they are charging me for flood zone AE. I do not get this, except that it is a total scam.
Go to a different Insurance Company, ask about a flood policy, and DON’T tell them your dilemma. Just say you want a quote. They’ll call it in to FEMA, for underwriting, and if you’re really in an X zone, the policy will be written as “Low Risk”. Once your policy is in affect, you’re covered to the obligations in your mortgage.This is a good way to find out what FEMA thinks about your property before paying for a Surveyor, LOMA, and eventually a Lawyer. I thought I was screwed too, until i called the FEMA (800) number. He is the one that told me that the FEMA determination is the only thing that counts.
Tony, I tried your suggestion and every quote has been over 2,000. Obviously, FEMA has me in a high risk zone. I found a receipt from a surveyor that my husband had dealt with in 2002. I called him and he told me that the survey clearly showed that I was out of a flood zone. I also have a letter from my village engineer that states my home was determined to be out of AE by FEMA in Dec. of 2004. He called FEMA and they told him they are using the same map. I have been going back and forth on this since 1995, but have never paid over 386. per year. In 2007, I received a letter from Wells Fargo that said I no longer needed any flood insurance, and now I do? I don’t know what to do about this.
Im in same situation, house built in 2000, 6 years later, my house is in flood zone. When the house was built it was not even close to the flood area, my insurance is 2800 hundred a year and that just covers if creek washes my house away lol if uthis happens we all will be wet. Need help……
ANOTHER HARDSHIP FROM THE GOVERNMENT
Well not sure if there is any progress however but monthly payment went down from $1098 to $1018 it was $961 before this all started. Metlife said they were going to give me back $1080 from the money they stole from me because of the phony flood plain. When I call Metlife now I am put on hold forever. The other day I waited on hold for 45 minutes. I never received any money back and no read out of where the money went or where it goes today. Why am I paying 60 dollars mre a month than when this all started. I have never felt so helpless in my life. So what to do?? Are they trying to drive me into refinancing somewhere else. Why has none of this made it to the national press. From what I see on this site there are many more like me. Just another mortgage mess. Maybe I can get a government bail out like they did a few years back. I lost a total of $3500 dollars so far. CAN YOU SAY FRAUD
I knew there were most likely many people in the same boat as I am!
I am in the middle of the process. Myself and a neighbor were told we didn’t have to have a survey done (for part B of the LOMA) but after submitting the LOMA they said that we DID need a survey! I haven’t heard back yet but expect the same answer even though I provided a county tax map showing our elevation was clearly in disagreement with the FIRM.
I wanted to verify my elevation before spending the money on a surveyor so I used an elevation app on my iPone. It was within two feet of what the tax map said so I am pretty confident the surveyor will have the same result and I can eventually have our home removed from the AE zone. I live on a hill up from the creek and the revised FIRM map shows an area past our property as being at the same elevation as the creek. My neighbors and I are in the process of arranging for a surveyor to survey our properties.
I am going to be extremely upset if BOA ignores the letter. You can bet your last dollar that I will be shopping to refinance if that is the case. I will also be joining any other class action lawsuit against this. Maybe I will at least recoup some of the survey cost!
Jerry, that is fascinating that there is an app to verify elevation. I am going to have to look into that for sure.
I refinanced from BOA to ING Direct and during the refinance, they too realized I was in a flood zone and required flood insurance. Must be standard practice to evaluate that during the refi process. I don’t know how BOA could flat-out ignore your letter, but nothing would surprise me, that is for sure.
I live in Missouri, when I bought my home 8-9 years ago it was not in a flood zone. 2010 came and boom the trouble started. Mostly the same thing has happened to me as you all except we live in a community that does not participate in the NFIP, so we absolutely cannot obtain flood insurance. We have to bend over and take the forced-placed insurance from Wells Fargo. We tried to do this the diplomatic way by doing the Loma process, had the survey done, our elevation was compared to the Base Flood Approximate, (that’s right APPROXIMATE) no actual engineered study has been done to prove this flood line, we were just barely under the line. So needless to say we are still in the flood zone.
I am seriously considering stopping payments on my mortgage. I could end up paying an extra $30,000 over the course of my loan. One option I would like to find out there is a non-federally regulated company that can buy my note from Wells and then I can resume my payments to that company. Or find a rich farmer or someone that has the money sitting around doing nothing.
One question I would ask you all, Can you dispute the BFE or BFA?
Wow, you are in a tough situation for sure. In addition, all of us that are suddenly in a ‘flood plain’ are going to have a harder time selling our houses too.
So you had a private survey done and still landed in the flood zone? If that is the case, you may not have any recourse as I don’t know if you can fight a BFE. Again though, as you said, it is compared against a value that is an approximation.
So frustrating, that is for sure.
Is forced placed insurance legal? I read on a NFIP site that the statute mandates coverage only when the sale of flood insurance has been made available. This of course is for non-participating communities. It also stated a lender may exercise discretion and decline to make a loan in an SFHA where Federal flood insurance is not available. Also, lenders with significant lending in non-participating communities should establish procedures to ensure that loans on buildings in SFHAs where flood insurance is not available do not constitute an unacceptably large portion of the institution’s loan portfolio. So it sounds to me like they should have declined to buy out my mortgage years ago from WAMU. And until I can buy my own policy they should not mandate it to me. May be wrong on all of this, but just some items I read.
I finally got an insurance agent to listen to me. He received a recent flood determination from FEMA that states that my property is in zone X and my home is not in a flood zone. Why was everyone else going to charge over $2,000? I purchased a preferred risk policy for $324. a year. However, there is a 30 day waiting period. I just got a letter from Wells Fargo stating that because there is a lapse in the coverage that they were putting on my mortgage, they are going to charge $355. for this 30 day lapse. What a bunch of thieves.
Hey Jeanne, That’s great news. I guess you’ll have to pay the extra $328 for the first month, unless you think it’s worth a Small Claims court filing. I feel really bad for the folks that won’t be able to sell their homes because of these Mortgage Companies. Everyone that has been ripped off by these Flood Zone Predators should, at least, file a complaint on ripoffreport.com and the SCC.gov
Maybe if enough people are complaining, they’ll stop this money making scam.
Now to find out that Freddie Mac holds investments that make money when they can’t refinance, and Freddie Mac is the “Decider”. Vote for Mitt Romney, I believe he’s Honest. IMO- Any politician that comes from Congress is already tainted by Big Business
There shouldn’t have been a 30 day waiting period if a flood policy is required by your mortgage lender. From FEMA: The 30-day waiting period will not apply when flood insurance is required as a result of a lender determining that a loan which does not have flood insurance coverage should be protected by flood insurance as required by Section 102(e) of the Flood Disaster Protection Act of 1973, as amended by NFIRA, because the building securing a loan is located in a Special Flood Hazard Area. The coverage will be effective upon completion of an application and the presentment of payment of premium.
Thanks for following up with that information.
Sucess in a way. In my mail box yesterday I recieved a check for 2700 dollars for flood plain insurance that I had paid in the last 2 years. I had to send a nasty email to Metlife that I used the word fraud and class action lawsuit a lot. I was so sick of everything. I had started the process of refinance which I will still follow through with now. I am out my survey money and 500 more dollars but I did get something and I have to pay no more flood insurance. Someone mentioned using the word fraud in previous post and it did seem to help along with a lot of persistance. So everybody fight with everything you have and I want to wish you all good luck with this FEMA and Mortgage company fraud. I still cannot believe the stress that Metlife put me through. Last of all in this post I want to thank this website as I could not completed this without you. (Thanks Kris) Soon to be Quicken Mike, Metlife Mike
Metlife Mike, I am so glad for you. One thing to remember- you might be out some money, but at least your home won’t be deemed to be on a flood plain when you sell it.
Thanks for coming back and sharing your success, and good luck at Quicken!
Same thing just happened to me. I am looking for a surveyor now. If he confirms we are in a flood plain, I will buy the insurance from the company with which I have my car and homeowners. DO NOT ALLOW YOUR MORTGAGE HOLDER TO PROVIDE IT. THEY ARE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE! The surveyors charge around $500, apparently. The price of the flood insurance depends upon the findings of the survey.
The mortgage company insurance is the definitely the biggest rip off ever, be it flood or homeowners. They tried to tell us we didn’t have homeowners insurance and they took out a policy for us. It was a huge fight and they cancelled the policy, but they paid probably 3 times what I paid for my policy.
My neverending story…. I just got a letter from Wells Fargo and they said that I am in flood zone AE, even though I have a flood determination from FEMA (Jan. 2012) that states that I am in flood zone X. This is driving me crazy. I guess I am going to do a LOMA. Any suggestions?
This is a reprint of what I wrote before. It worked for me and another person on this site. Don’t mention your troubles with Wells Fargo, just ask for a ” Low Risk Quote”. This Will save you the time and money involved in a LOMA. Hope it works for you too.
If there’s contradiction between what FEMA says (zoneX500) and what the mortgage company is saying (zone AE), just go to your local agent and get them to write you a policy. The Insurance Companies get the policies underwritten by FEMA. If FEMA says your eligible for Low Risk (Zone X500) the insurance will be written and you are now covered to the responsibilities of your mortgage. This avoids a LOMA and more mortgage company diatribe . Sometimes the Insurance Companies (do) want an elevation certificate from a local Surveyor ($300), but Once FEMA has issued insurance, tell the mortgage this and, in writing, tell them to stop the intimidation. They seem to understand that word. I’m X500, bordering an AE Tidal Creek. House is at an 11.78 elevation and we pay ( the same as every “AE Structure in the United States) $355 annually for the limit (250K). That satisfies your responsibility. Maybe I just got lucky, but my FEMA guy said to tell the mortgage company that “FEMA writes and reads the Maps, Not Mortgage Flood Insurance Sales Departments.If the mortgaged structure isn’t in AE, and FEMA underwrites a policy, it’s covered and fulfills all responsibility in the mortgage.” If your mortgage company has duplicated your coverage just file against them in your Local Small Claims Court. It is too much aggravation for them to fight a small claims, that they’ll likely lose, and you should get back any charged premiums and your small claims filing fee. Hope this helps
Tony, I tried this and a local insurance co. wrote out a low risk policy for $ 324. a year because of the flood determination. However, I received a letter from Wells Fargo yesterday that their sources put me in zone AE. and I will need to buy high risk insurance. I called FEMA and they told me that FEMA has not done my recent flood determination, done by a private company. Obviously, Wells Fargo is using a different company that has placed me in a high risk zone, how convenient for Wells Fargo(Freddie Mac in disguise) I think the only thing I can do now is the LOMA.
Did Wells Fargo say they were going to take out a policy on your behalf if you didn’t buy high risk insurance? Did FEMA say if you had any recourse?
Maybe if you do the LOMA, it will show WF that they are crazy and you won’t need flood insurance at all.
Kris, I just spent all afternoon working on the LOMA. Yes, Wells Fargo is going to force a high risk policy on my mortgage. FEMA said the only recourse is the LOMA. I told Wells Fargo that I am going to charge them for all the time and money that I have spent on this. Thanks for all the information on this site, it has helped.
See, what is so frustrating is that us mortgage holders really don’t have much recourse because the banks will just do whatever they want. My house is on the top of a hill and I am in a ‘flood zone’. I am one of two houses in a 1 mile x 1 mile subdivision. I will be filing a LOMA soon myself. Please keep us informed.
We were in the same boat as everybody else on this site – zone A, high flood insurance – from $1200 to $1400, and it was keep rising and we finally couldn’t take it any longer. My husband overheard a guy at work about elevation certificate – which we did for $535, then a serveyer filed LOMA to FEMA-it took us 3 months and we are now in zone B. Wells Fargo dropped their mortgage requirement and it feels so good after 4 years to pay for nothing! What I’m researching now is how we can get our money which we payed for those years back from Allstate, so if anybody have some ideas and what kind of attorney we should hire or any success stories on getting insurance money back-it would be really appreciated.
Take care here. Your lender does NOT have to remove the need for Insurance if you get a LOMA. So once again Even if you get a LOMA your lender can still require you to carry flood Ins. I am in the same situation and have asked my lender 5/3rd if I did get a LOMA would they drop the requirement they said they could not tell me. They are working on an answer now.
Nice. That sounds so wrong. You hate to pay for a flood certificate and then possibly a lawyer just to get your house properly zoned, and then recognized as properly zoned. I look forward to hearing what they decide.
I will keep you posted
I talked with our mortgage Wells Fargo company rep while we were doing all this LOMA to FEMA and she assured me once they would get this paperwork which would state zone B on it they would drop their flood requirement. So far they were standing to their promise and dropped it. They even refunded our money for flood insurance they put in addition on top of our AllState insurance since what we had was not enough according to their requirements. Now what I’m researching is is there any way to get our flood insurance money from Allstate back since we were paying for 3 years for nothing and all together it comes to almost $4000. According to my understanding we were mislead by maps which we have in our local flood department/ but they also provided probably by FEMA. So who should we sue-FEMA?
We live in northern Indiana and deemed in a flood zone last fall because the back of our property is adjacent to a small creek that hasn’t flooded as long as the town has been in existence! After no assistance or guidance from our city officials on what our options were, we did some research on our own and hired a surveyor and filed the LOMA to FEMA a couple weeks ago. According to the elevation survey we are not in the floodplain, so now its the waiting game with FEMA. Does anyone know if there are any options in recouping our money for paying a surveyor to fight this thing or are we pretty much “out of luck”? Thanks and good luck to everyone!
fema problems
Any body know how we can get some national attention on this? It’s going on all over the country and costing citizens thousands of dollars. Seems like a good 60 minutes story, especially since the beneficiaries are the big mortgage companies who caused the financial collapse 4 years ago. We all need to write to our elected officials about this, but help cannot come soone enough for most of us. Anybody connected to the media or senate lobyists who can help?
Adrienne
A little background info:
1. The FEMA Flood Insurance Rate Maps (FIRM) are created by a number of methods. Some of them are actually based on reasonable, detailed measurements. Others are based on what I refer to as a ‘guesstimate’ based on some old USGS Topographic Quadrangles maps that were NOT developed for the purpose that FEMA put them to. What that means is that the lines shown on the FIRM as the flood plain can be and often are very incorrect in the real world. Step one in the screw up was mandating and creating a government agency based on known inaccurate data. It should have been required that before a FIRM was produced and enacted for a community, accurate data had to be collected.
2. The circular spiral down the drain is this – the banks (if FDIC insured) have federal regulations requiring that they have a flood plain analysis done and if even a portion of the property is found to be in a flood plain require flood insurance. They hire a company (the ones I have heard of most often are out of Texas) to look at the FIRM (often inaccurate information) and tell the bank if the property is in a flood plain. FEMA policy is that if the lines (known to be often inaccurate) show a portion of the property in the flood plain, it is in the flood plain until/unless they issue a Letter Of Map Amendment (LOMA). Of course the flood analysis company will have no local knowledge of the matter, often have not been able to accurately locate the property on the FIRM, and will play it safe if you are near a flood plain and say your property is in it. You, the private citizen, then have the option of hiring a Land Surveyor to provide FEMA with the accurate data necessary to show your property is out of the flood plain so that you can drop the insurance requirement. So in a round-about way, certain citizens of this country have been slowly ‘hidden taxed’ to pay for FEMA to get more accurate data instead of the government having to provide factual information as to who is in the flood plain first.
3. Recently, there have been ‘modernizations’ to the FIRM. Again this data is often based on using data from other sources that WERE NOT originally developed for the level of accuracy they need. When the maps are revised, the banks are supposed to look into it and see if the change affects the properties their (FDIC insured) dollars are backing. Hence the surprise that many of you have faced.
Now for the really fun information. Even some of the ‘accurate’ data is not correct. I am a Land Surveyor and have completed the LOMA process for several clients. One of the more surprising ones was on a lake front house. In this instance lake front means owning to a certain elevation, but not all the way out to the water – there is some land in between the lake front properties and the water that is TVA property. Historically, the base flood elevation was equal to the lowest point of ownership and to the top of the dam that created the man-made lake. The old FIRM maps had a poorly drawn line that showed many properties in the flood zone, but there were not many request for LOMAs. An ‘updated’ map shows the same old flood line overlaid on some pretty aerial photography, now it looks like there are houses in the flood zone, so I have had more calls about that area. This is acase of using some pretty good date (aerial photography) combined with inaccurate date (the old flood lines) and making a even bigger problem.
Just a month prior to the ‘new’ map, I provided all of the correct information to FEMA for a client. FEMA responded with one very incorrect requirement (when I provided a written request of clarification it was ignored and the ‘problem’ went away) as well as a slightly incorrect piece of information about the flood elevation. Unfortunately, the contractor hired to do the “detailed” study reported an incorrect elevation based on a different datum (as someone above mentioned). Because of that, every property on the lake would have been in the flood zone by 2 and a half inches. It took a good bit longer, but I finally got the property removed by way of a LOMA.
Now for some advice.
In general, be careful of how you view and use maps. As an example, just because a tax map shows your property line on some aerial photographs does not mean it is correctly located.
For FEMA, first try to prove your actual property location in relation to the FIRM. Sometimes, the bank’s company do not properly locate the property. If your property actually is inside those incorrectly drawn lines, your best option is to hire a Land Surveyor to take care of the LOMA process for you. Just make sure that your surveyor knows what he is doing (unfortunately some will agree to do the work, but do not know all they need to about the process).
If you are actually in a flood zone even by accurate measurement, get an elevation certificate as the amount below the flood elevation you are affects the risk rating so your costs for insurance could go down.
Hope you folks all get these problems solved.
I need some advice, please!!! I received a letter from FEMA saying my application for a LOMA was not complete. They said that I needed an elevation information form. I then went to the survey company that had done my survey in 2002. They told me that I was in a high risk zone, although when this survey was done in 2002, the mortgage company removed us from a high risk zone. ???? The flood elevation was 669.4, the top of our foundation 673.05, first floor 674.10, our walk out basement(what puts us in a high risk zone) 665.95. The surveyor recommended that I do not send an elevation form to FEMA because then there will be this official document saying that I am in a high risk zone.(drop the whole LOMA thing) He said that I should do an elevation certificate (another $350.) and bring this to my insurance co. in the hope of getting a lower rate. This is driving me crazy, and any advice would be appreciated. The costs of my house, between property taxes and now flood insurance, are making me think that I need to sell my house of 34 years, if that would even be possible in these tough times.It took 2 years to sell a house on my block.
When I went through my LOMA they used the “lowest” elevation point on my survey at the base of the slab not the top. I have about a 3 foot elevation on my slab, but they don’t care they used bottom number.
So if your lowest is 665.95 that is probably what they will use.
Still it doesn’t cost anything to do the LOMA and see what they say.
I have a bit of a different situation. I bought my vacant land in 2003. I started to build in 2006. When we applied for our septic permit it was denied by the county because of the flood plain. We then decided to build on a different portion of my 4 acres. Now I have looked up the new FIRM maps and it seems that my entire property is under a flood zone. I do not have a mortgage but am interested in getting flood insurance. But I was wondering if there was anything I can do maybe legal-wise to the county or surveyor or something? If I was made aware at purchase that I was in a flood plain then I would have never signed. I was also wanting an update to the progress of the intial post.
I also need to fight the BFE, as I too have a creek on my property, according to a hydraulic study of that creek(the same study FEMA uses to determine BFE) my house is well above the 500 year flood elevation that the study calls out for the cross section of the creek that my house is in. I had a similar situation as everyone getting tricked into flood insurance. I was in the process of buying a home, and was informed it needed to be surveyed, I paid for the survey, was quoted all insurances, including a low risk flood insurance. I proceeded to close on the house about two months after closing I recieved a letter that stated the surveyor screwed up the survey and that the house was in a zone AE and my new insurance went from 450 to 4500 a year. NYS doesnt require surveyors to have liability ins. so I have no recourse against surveyor. If you mow lawns in NY you need ins. but if your a licensed survyor you dont. Sounds crazy to me.
Hello,
I bought my home 4 years ago, I live acaross the street from a shallow fishing lake that no one in the area remembers ever flooding (if you live near a puddle FEMA will get you!) Last August I refinanced my home and received a letter that I no longer needed flood insurance (well Yippee) this week I received another letter some months later stating I went from an X zone (not needing flood ins)back to to an AE zone (high risk) I had an elevation survey done some time ago showing I was 0.5 off of the base flood line. I am fighting this, I am a senior and you are correct flood insurance is very costly and your house payment will go up to accomodate it. If I lived on a large lake or the ocean I could understand it but you could nearly walk out to the middle of this lake, so what changed in 5 short months time with the mapping and oh by the way FEMA told the lady at the bank they can do mapping at will so you never know I gues if your in or out of the zone. . .Personally I feel many pay who do not need it and are paying for those unfortunate’s who do actually have floods, Why throw money out the window if you don’t need the product, what ever happened to “choices” for citizen’s. Good Luck to you!
It is good you have an elevation survey that is on your side. It is awful how we have to pay for actual certifications when FEMA can make decisions based on basically ‘guessing’. So frustrating.
Good luck.
I just got the bad news. My elevation certificate(another $350.) puts me in flood zone AE by 1.1 That is my unfinished basement. I guess I just have to accept paying $2,500 a year for something that I will probably never use, just throwing money away. Is there any way to continue to fight this?
That is terrible news. So you tried to recertify and got bad news, what a bummer. I don’t know how you continue to fight if the elevation certificate confirm you are in a flood zone, but I am not an expert.
Recently went to a Discovery meeting for our county, this was put on by FEMA, SEMA, and reps. from Baker. They told me this would be the time to bring any information forth dealing with issues of the flood maps. I brought photos of some flooding in our town, these areas have been deemed by the new flood maps to be no longer in the flood zone. They pretty much laughed in my face saying, ” we need scientific proof “. After we cut each others throats, they asked me how far was I from being out of the flood zone. I said my lowest adjacent grade was about 12 inches to 16 inches below the BFA. And that I also had a 3 foot crawl space and my first floor is well above the so called flood line. They suggested I put fill around my foundation making sure it was above the flood line and have my surveyor come back out and shoot the lowest adjacent grade again, resubmit it to FEMA and they would have no choice put to remove the structure from the flood zone. Sounded too good to be true, has anyone done something similar to this? Any advice?
Wow, that is an interesting idea. How much would it cost to put in the fill around the house? Isn’t it amazing how expensive this proposition is? What is funny is I don’t think the FEMA maps are very scientific at all, so that comment is pretty ironic.
Randy. I was thinking about putting in fill, as my walk out basement is also about 12-13 inches below the BFE. The only worry I have is that on the application form for the LOMA, the first question is “Has fill been placed on your property to raise ground that was previously below the BFE? If yes, STOP -You must complete the MT-application forms.” Whatever that is??????
I am fighting now because I know I’m not in a flood zone! They attached 300 a month to my mortgage and my neighbors have not been notified of the horrible consequences of floods because their houses are paid for. In other words, it can be so dangerous, PLEASE protect yourself and family!!! But if your house is paid for… we do not care if you live or die! I can’t even keep water in my 47,000.00 gallon pool and can’t afford the needed retaining walls to KEEP my land from going down to the NEW sub-division they dug out behind me after I bought my house! I applied for disaster relief because I can’t even afford food now! I have a plat that clearly states that I am NOT IN A FLOOD ZONE! But, I have to find the time and pay for maps and a surveyor to come prove it!! Well as a result, I can’t pay my property taxes so they have really made it difficult for me!! I would assume they have bigger fish to fry!!! I will stay here until a constable drags me out by my hair and good luck with that because my dog loves his pool!! Not idiots!!
By the way, check it out further because Bank of America, Chase Bank, and J.P. Morgan Chase have already been sued over this in New York! Bankers are lining their pockets at our expense. I am willing to file suit and it can and will be class action just like the others. We need to stick together on this!!!
Chase Bank is my mortgage lender and I have an appointment with them at 10:30 a.m.!
Just got informed that wells fargo bought my loan, An now they are saying my flood ins that im paying for of $2800 is not enough on my 149,000.00 loan. They are requesting another 1000.00 a total of 3880 to be exact. I totaly do not understand this!!! cant believe that the government is letting this stuff happen!!! I pay 670.00 for fire and tornados witch we have had 4 confirmed in my county this year if my house is destroyed its payed for!!! but if water gets in it its $4000.00 a year and cover only dwelling !!! i have never had water in my yard and have a creek 5 foot across 100 yards away from my house built in 2000 then not even close to 100 year flood zone ,2006 thanks fema puts the house in a flood zone what???? This is wrong !!! Is there anybody that can help !!! like a government official who would like to stand up for the right thing??? people are struggling everyday to make home payments and the governtment allows this!!!! How is flood ins so high for the same amount of money! 4000.00 for flood 670 for fire, earthquakes, tornados, Guys this is a total scam!!!!!
If anyone is fighting, i also want to file a suit!!! if anyone nows of were to join tell me!!!
I dont care if mine or your house is in a flood zone, still there is no reason for the price of this ins is to be so high!!!
Recently my property was reevaluated by FEMA and placed back into the flood zone. I was previously out based on a 1996 determination. On the 2012 re-determination, FEMA lowered the elevations for everyone in the so called flood zone. Although my neighbors around me are out of the flood zone, my Lowest Adjacent Ground (LAG) level is 1/10 lower than my Base Flood Elevation (BFE) level and therefore I was considered in the zone. If your LAG level is below the BFE level apparently you are considered to be a high risk for flooding. I am close to 1 mile from the creek that they indicate as a flood risk to my property. Of course they are using the 100 year flood history for the basis of their determination. Millions of dollars have been spent on flood gates and sewer improvements to reduce the creek overflow to the immediate area of the creek, but FEMA is still indicating a flood potential exists for properties well away from the creek area if their LAG is lower than the BFE level. BFE minus LAG=BS.
I have been to my city, state representative and congressional rep with no positive results on the matter of this new determination. Everything pointed back to FEMA. I did have a new survey done today, as a matter of fact and the initial results were that my LAG levels are higher than what FEMA had me listed and higher than my BFE level. The surveyor will be submitting the LOMA on the new levels he found. I did not have to place any dirt around my property prior to the survey. I am not sure of the time frame it takes FEMA to make a new determination on my property. I will probably end up getting the flood insurance in the interim since my mortgage company indicated that I only had 45 days to do so or they would do it themselves at a much higher cost.
As others have indicated this has been a real time consuming effort to this point. It’s just another example of government screwing the citizens and protecting the banks. By the by, if you didn’t know, FEMA is now under the Department of Homeland Security. Go figure that connection out.
We are in the same boat. we are not in a flood plain yet being charged flood insurance and told we have to prove otherwise. Bunch of B.S.
Sorry to hear your bad news. Now that you are so designated, something that I forgot to mention yesterday is that if you want to do any kind of work on your property a special permit is required by FEMA through the Department of Environmental Quality. From what I hear that permit costs about $450. So if you want to put in a new driveway or build a patio you have to get permission from the federal government in addition to any city permits that may be required.
Good Luck.
I have been staying for last 40 years in a room & my cousin in other room. Now my room is about to fall down. unfortunately I don’t have any proof to prove that this room is mine.I have only electricity bill in my name. Now my cousin claiming that his is the owner of both room as he has been paying municiple tax for both room & his not allowing to repair my room. what should i do? Please i need help
For those of you wondering what to do if FEMA states you are in a flood zone, have an elevation survey done (about $300) then download the paperwork from FEMA site for a LOMA (map ammendment)
follow the instructions to the T or they will keep sending it back for revision then all you can do it wait, They told me initially I was in a flood zone, I refinanced and they told me I was not in a flood zone and 5 months later I was back in a flood zone. We all pay for other’s flood damages and we ourselves may never have a flood. I am in a waiting mode right now, perhaps an attorney could help and may be my next step. Good luck to all. . . Kerry
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